Shooting Collectibles

I happen to be the proud owner of a Colt M1911 and a Remington Rand M1911A1. I believe each pistol is 100% original. Up until this point, I only owned one handgun that I have never shot, a 1910 Imperial Luger. It, too, is all original and all matching, although I swapped out the grips to preserve them.

It has been a hard decision not to shoot the Colt "Black Army" M1911 that I recently acquired, but I've come to the conclusion that not shooting it will be the best decision for me. It has taken me almost seven years to find this pistol at an all original price I would pay. If I do not shoot it, I can always install a new recoil spring and a shock buffer and take it to the range at any given time in the future.

I am fortunate to have found an original M1911 that I could afford. I'm also fortunate to own a Remington Rand in excellent original condition. While still scouring gun shows and pawn shops for these pistols, I built a M1911A1 copy from a Springfield GI45, and I purchased a Colt WWI Reproduction. Scott Gahimer says they all basically shoot the same. As a collector and enthusiast, Scott has shot a lot of M1911s. More than myself. I trust his advice.

It is an odd thing how some humans acquire objects of desire simply to possess them. But possession is not the goal. Learning about the things and showing others is a large part of the pastime. I have several 1911 pistols that get regular workouts as well as the ones I keep in my carry rotation. I have no driving need to shoot the old grey veteran I have found.

There may come a time when I will shoot the Colt "Black Army." I suspect that when the thrill of simply owning the genuine article wears thin, I will put a few rounds down range to confirm function if nothing else. That time is not now, however. I still have not shot the Colt M1911 reproduction. I suppose the Springfield M1911A1 copy will keep me going for a while longer.

Remington Rand First Shots

I took the Remington Rand M1911A1 out to the range today, with the original HS barrel installed. I shot it at 7, 15, and 21 feet, using 230 grain Winchester hardball. It performed flawlessly through two hundred rounds of ammo.

Two stations down from me, a young man was teaching his girlfriend to shoot a Glock. It made me wonder........They were all over the page, but it was likely not the pistol's fault. I started to rent a Glock pistol to compare the Remington to, but I will save that challenge for another day.

HS Barrel

I have maintained contact with the gentleman who sold a Remington Rand that I subsequently purchased at a gun show a few weeks back. The only flaw in the pistol was a post war Colt barrel. Today, I recieved a package with the correct, original High Standard barrel in it. This puts my Remington Rand back at 100% original. Karma is good.

Remington Rand Ramblings

Thus far, I have learned I own a Type III Remington Rand M1911A1. Everything appears to be correct about my pistol except for the barrel. Apparently I have a post-war Colt barrel in my pistol. It should have a High Standard (HS) GI barrel. The magazine, made by General Shaver, appears to be the original magazine. I am hoping the original owner can enlighten me to the barrel exchange reasons.

I have also learned a means of detecting a refinish job on a Remington Rand that is known by only a few collectors. It is, in fact rarely mentioned, lest fakers learn how to disguise their forgeries. Because of this, I can say my pistol has never been refinished.

Remington Rand Research

My Remington Rand M1911A1 was produced by the Remington Rand Typewritter Company in 1945. Remington Rand was awarded its first M1911A1 order on March 16th, 1942, for a total of 125,000 pistols. The company had no experience building pistols at the time it was awarded the contract. Remington Rand formed a new division (Remington Rand "C" Division) to take charge of building the M1911A1. Remington Rand "C" Division converted a vacant plant into a modern pistol manufacturing facility. The plant was located on Dickerson street in Syracuse, N.Y and was once used for building typewriters. Initially some manufacturing equipment was not available. This caused Remington Rand to acquire parts from other sources to complete the early pistols. They purchased barrels from High Standard, Colt, and Springfield Armory. Disconnectors were purchased from US&S, grip safeties from Colt, and slide stops from Colt and Springfield Armory (2,865 left over from WWI). Remington Rand "C" Division inherited much of the documentation, tooling, and machinery that originally was used by The Singer Manufacturing Co. in their Educational Order.

Consequently some of the parts of the early Remington Rand pistols were made using Singer supplied tooling and fixtures. Careful examination of early Remington Rand pistols will reveal striking similarities in some of the parts to Singer made parts such as the triggers and mainspring housings. The first 255 production pistols where accepted by ordnance inspectors in November of 1942. Initial shipments appeared to perform satisfactorily, but subsequent tests performed by ordnance inspectors revealed serious problems with parts interchangeability. In March 1943 James Rand Jr. stopped production due to a high rate of parts interchangeability test failures. Only after a change in management and a thorough review of the inspection and manufacturing operations was production finally resumed in May of 1943. Throughout production Remington Rand aggressively attempted to innovate and improve the production of 1911A1 pistols.

By March of 1945 they where building the lowest price pistol in the war effort and quality was considered second to none. By the end of the war Remington Rand had produced over 875,000 pistols, almost as many as Colt (628,808) and Ithaca (335,467) combined. Reference: Charles Clawson, “Colt .45 Service pistols”.

I'm currently researching my Remington Rand on the 1911 Forum and at Harley Nolden's Institute For Firearms Research. It looks like the magazine is a General Shaver magazine, and correct for the gun. The General Shaver Division of Remington Rand manufactured magazines that were issued with Remington Rand pistols only and were fully blued, with a spot welded base marked with a " G " on the top of the lip of the base. The General Shaver magazines also had spot welding down the back of the tube.

The Colt barrel is curious. I'm wanting more information on that.

Remington Rand variation information is available here.

Gun Show Dice Roll and Karma

After lunch, I returned to the gun show. I had helped out another gun owner this morning, assisting him in finding the value of his old revolver. It was time for the gun gods to smile on me. I noticed a fellow carrying around a lever action Marlin rifle, who also had an orange tag protruding out his jacket pocket. I ambled over to see what might be attached to the tag. I looked first at the rifle. It was a .22 caliber rifle, an old Marlin. He was asking $350 or so. Considering the condition, I thought that was a bit high.

Finally, as he was about to turn away, I asked "What about the one in your pocket?" He then pulled a topbreak S&W revolver from hiding. The grips had been replaced with pearl grips at some point, no medallions, but they were genuine mother of pearl. I asked what he wanted for it, and he replied $225. I opened the cylinder, and found all the numbers to be matching. It was a .38 Double Action 4th Model. I countered $200, and he said $215. I asked if I could dry fire the revolver and he said yes. I dry fired it, and it functioned. I turned it over in my hands, wondering if I really wanted to add another top break revolver to the stable. I was flying by the seat of my pants on this deal. I did not know the market value of this gun without consulting the book. The book was outside in the car. Just as I was about to return it to it's owner, he said $200 would be fine. Because I had offered, I could not withdraw, so I rolled the dice. I took two Franklins out and handed them over to the gent, and thanked him for my new gun. Then I went out to the car to look it up. I had done OK on the deal. Not spectacular, but I did not take a whooping either. I returned to the arena.

I make no bones about being a 1911 fanatic. I keep track of recent price trends, I buy and shoot old man Browning's .45, and I have found contentment doing so. Because of the historical nature of the 1911, one of my Holy Grail guns has long been a M1911. When I came back inside the gun show, I wandered over to one of my favorite dealers, Cowboy Bob. I was too late. Bob was engaged with a gentleman who was selling a M1911A1 for a friend who had been a Major in the US Army. The pistol had been retained by the officer after he left the service, and was in it's original holster. It appeared to be in good shape. I stood by as Cowboy Bob continued to chat with the seller. If he walked away from Bob's offer, I was prepared to quickly counter, although I wasn't certain I had the cash at hand.

Cowboy Bob offered the man a thousand dollars for the pistol and holster. The man wavered, but his wife poked him in the ribs. Then he agreed. I watched Bob pull ten crisp hundred dollar bills from the wad of cash in his pocket, and he took possession of the pistol. After the seller and his wife walked away, I immediately said "OK Bob, how much are you going to sell that pistol to me for?"

"You want to buy it?" Bob acted surprised. He handed me the pistol, and I saw it was a Remington Rand. Earlier this week I had researched the serial number on a Remington Rand for someone and I saw that this gun's serial fell within the same range. I am not an expert on M1911s, but the combination of a one owner gun, carried but seldom used, and matching slide and frame made me confident that the gun was correct. Bob said "Twelve hundred."

"No tax," I countered. Bob agreed, and I broke out my checkbook. Bob thanked me for not turning the deal into an auction, and I thanked him for his work securing the deal. Thus the dice was rolled twice this afternoon, and karma kept me from taking a shellacking. Expect more on these two purchases soon.

Remington Rand Research