A Smith & Wilson

"Whatcha got in that box Mister?" There have been times that I almost wanted to put a rattlesnake in a blue Colt box and stroll through a gun show. I didn't know if I would even make the gun show today. It was my call weekend, and I've been busy. I began yesterday at six in the morning, and I walked out of the hospital after dark. When I got home, I collapsed sideways on the bed, devoid of sheets, as my wonderful mate was doing laundry. Today, I had another couple of cases, but we finished at noon, and I left the hospital with only my pager to remind me I was not a free man.

After a burrito, I decided to gamble the gate fee and head to the gun show any way. I checked the gun vault for trade fodder, and at the top of the stack was the SW1911 I purchased from Neil last year. I purchased the pistol as trade fodder, and it still resided in my gun room. I opened the box, checked the chamber, and headed to the gun show. I was violating my gun show rule number four, carry cash, but the banks were closed, and I hadn't planned on going. Perhaps I could get a swap for the SW1911......

I was looking forward to seeing old friends, and after I let an officer of the law fumble, paw, zip tie and tag my pistol, I entered the Last Bastion of Freedom. As usual, I made my way to the rear of the arena where Cowboy Bob peddled his wares. I first purchased a firearm from Cowboy Bob years ago, a Star Model A. I thought it would shoot 9mm parabellum, but I soon learned that Largo wasn't just the name of an island off Florida. Bob was a gentleman about it. He took the gun back, returned my money in full, and I have been a faithful customer of his for the past decade or so. Bob's pencil thin moustache and Stetson aren't that unusual, but his lavishly engraved Colt single action Army revolvers are heady fare at small town gun shows. He always has used guns, usually at fair prices and is an eager trade. Heck, I purchased my first Remington Rand M1911A1 from Cowboy Bob. There was no telling what he might have!

Cowboy Bob was not there. A dealer who didn't know Bob was in his usual spot. I cruised the tables a bit, and took note of several items of interest, I looked at a S&W 22 caliber AR clone for $500. That seemed like a fair price. The Colt version was a bit more. Both, however, are available at any time for the same money. I passed.

I spied a Clark Custom 38 Special wadcutter gun. It was in the cardboard and styrofoam Colt box, and had obviously been built by the old man himself. The bluing was like new, and tiger tooth stippling covered the frontstrap. The old Keithville location was hand engraved on the slide. It was interesting, but the dealer selling it liked it a lot. The price was $1600. I decided to keep my thirty-eight specials in wheel guns.

As I attempted to pass by the bearded guy from Arkansas who sells mix master M1911s as all original war relics for inflated prices, he called out "Whatcha got in the box, Mister?" I started to say 'Grandpa's trashy old Singer sewing machine gun,' but I refrained. I just smiled and kept walking. He dodged past his Chinese 1918 trench knives and asked again. I finally told him a S&W 1911 that I was looking to trade off. He asked me how much I wanted in cash.

Lesson #1 in negotiating: Never be the first to state a figure. Lesson #2: Guns are worth more that cash. Cash doesn't shoot, and there are many ways of obtaining cash. I told the fellow that I only wanted a trade, and if he had anything to barter besides cash, we could talk. He eyed his stack of beater GI guns, and decided he would save them for some unsuspecting fish. I walked on.

As I passed a table full of zip lock baggied ammunition, the seller inquired about my mystery box. We talked 1911s a bit, and I learned his two Kimbers ate everything shoved into their chamber, even lead wadcutters. He went on to inform me that Colt 1911s and S&W1911s only shoot hardball and I would do well to swap the pistol for the Taurus revolver he just happened to have. I thanked him for his generosity. After all, it is unusual to find such an honest reloader selling factory ammunition in reusable and biodegradable containers. I decided not to take advantage of the offer though.

I was starting to believe I had walked into one of the gun shows I often read about when I came upon my old friend Lester. "You still trying to sell that pistol Xavier?" he asked.

"Trade Lester, trade...." I replied. I asked to see what Lester had purchased, and he opened his sportscoat to reveal two Smith & Wesson revolvers in his waistband. The diamond grips of one caught my eye. Lester grinned and pulled a Combat Masterpiece from his waist.

"Damn. Yesterday? I asked.

"Just now, in the parking lot," he replied. Then Lester saw my face. "Don't even think it," he instructed me. We cruised the tables together, and I asked about Cowboy Bob. Lester had not seen him the previous day either. Nobody seemed to know what had happened. Finally, as the arena became crowded with people coming in from church and Sunday dinner, Lester and I decided to call it quits. I still had the SW1911.

"Have you ever thought about ordering a 22 conversion kit for that thing and making it a dedicated 22 caliber training gun?" Lester asked as we walked through the parking lot. Actually, I had not. Lester went on, "I hear Wilson Combat is putting out a pretty decent 22 conversion." Hmmmmmm.... A Smith & Wilson, mail ordered to my door. I could do that. Hmmmmmmm....

Wilson Combat 22 conversion kit

Would You Trade?

The 1911 is an Argentine Sistema refinished in black duracoat. All springs replaced. New wood grips. TruDot night sights. Extended beavertail and thumb safety. 300-rd count. Includes 3 old Metalform mags, and 3 8-rd Kimber mags. Also includes 50 rounds Remington JHP ammo and 63 rounds American Eagle FMJ ammo. I like it because it exudes old-world charm. It is an old-time 1911!

I use a modified Sistema for CCW. It's a gun that I custom tailored to fit myself. It's a good, reliable gun. I also own a rearsenaled Sistema, and an original finish Sistema.

I enjoy the Pistola Sistema Modelo Argentino 1927 as shootable historic pistol, and I am a bit of a student of it's history. I have modified them, worked on them, and shot them. Please allow me to dispel a few myths.

First, the Colt Model 1927 Sistema was not made from steel from the Admiral Graf Spee, a nazi battleship scuttled in shallow Argentine waters during World War II. They were made from high quality steel from the period to Colt's original specifications.

Yes, the steel of a Sistema is softer in places than modern 1911s. This is because all 1911s from the time the Colt Sistemas were made were tempered only in specific areas of stress after the part was machined. Today's 1911s are CNC machined from tempered steel. Thus, the entire frame and slide is tempered. I have installed custom fitted beavertails on Series 80 Colts and on Sistemas. I can say without equivocation that the frame tangs on the Sistema ground down surprisingly easy.

The thing is, does this matter? Yes and no. One Sistema I worked on had to have the magazine well opened up a bit because it had collaped slightly under the weight of a truck. You could shove a magazine in, but it would not drop free. I don't rotinely drive trucks over my guns, and I advised the owner of that pistol to reserve that kind of treatment for Glocks. Incidentally, I used a small hydraulic C-ram to open up the magwell.

I would not alter the ejection port of a Sistema. That area is one of the hardened areas, and I wouldn't want to get close to the softer steel. The same goes for any part of the front of the slide or the frame around the slide stop pin.

This specific pistol, from the slide import mark, appears to be one of the last shipments of Sistemas, known in collector circles as the Lipsey shipment. These were bottom of the barrel examples imported in 2006, and were probably the last ones out there. Many were sent back to Lipseys for a refund by those collectors who ordered them. A lot of those same collectors now kick themselves.

The Lipsey guns were, in general, excellent candidates for custom 1911s such as this. They were basically in the white, no finish left, but complete with steel small parts, and they were cheap. Many were made into custom 1911s.

That brings us to custom 1911 territory, or really, custom any kind of gun territory. Such a firearm is only as good and reliable as the man who made it. This is why I took a Colt Commander to Jim Clark Jr. for a melt job even though I own a belt sander and a vise. Could I do the job he did? Yeah, maybe, if luck was with me. Could he do the job he did? Definitely. Was it worth it? It was to me. I got to pick exactly what I wanted and how I wanted it done. That is what a custom gun is. A custom gun is not a 1911 that a gunsmith, no matter how talented, put a beavertail on along with some other goodies in hopes that he might find a buyer. A custom gun is a gun that is made to the needs and specifications of a specific buyer, like a custom suit or shirt. Anything else may be nice, but it was not tailored to you.

What this pistol is is a modified Sistema. It appears to be a Lipsey gun, and the modifications appear to be well done. The questions I would ask are:
1. What barrel is in it?
2. Is the sear and disconnect original?
3. I would expect the springs had been swapped out.
4. Why was an arched mainspring housing swapped out for an arched mainspring housing?
5. Why Duracoat?

I would inspect it very carefully in the usual GI M1911 stress areas. Duracoat can cover a lot of things. In fact, since I know a shooter who is a radiologist I would probably place it under a C-arm and look at it under flouro. With a collectible M1911 I wouldn't go to that length, but on a GI gun that would see significant range time in my hands, since I have the ability, why not? Especially if it was Duracoated instead of blued or parkerized.

Finally, I would expect to shoot the gun to establish reliability and to see if I like it. That's a benefit of buying any used gun, along with the reduced price. This pistol is a shooter. I could be a very nice shooter, and a wonderful carry gun.

To answer the question of whether I would make this specific trade....... Yes, as long as there were no cracks in the Sistema's frame or slide. Why? I like 1911s, and I don't care for Glocks. That is the only reason. Glocks are generally reliable, but not infallible. So are 1911s that retain a mil-spec frame/slide/barrel relationship. Both camps have devoted and blind disciples. I am here to say I have had my tail waxed by bearers of Gaston's finest, but I've shown a few plastic fantastics what 1911 supremacy is all about a few times too. I like 1911s because they help me shoot better than I ever thought I could.

I carry a 1911 because I shoot better with them, and I believe in a self defense situation, effective shot placement (including depth) to stop the threat is more important than caliber, action type, brand of gun, scent of aftershave, or any other factor, except perhaps speed. The 1911 gives me the most speed and the most accurate shot placement. The Glock does the same for other folks.

Chances are, the only thing I would do to this gun is swap out the sights for Novaks. From what I can tell from the photographs, the workmanship appears to be competently performed, and wise choices have been made as to where to stop the modifications.

Learn more about Sistemas here.

Learn how to thoroughly check out a used 1911 here.

A Phone Call

Ring ring! Ring ring!

"This is Xavier, may I help you?" I always answer the cellphone like that in case it's a physician I work with. My daughter finds it amusing at least.........

"Hey Xav, he accepted your offer, five o'clock OK?"

"Roger that."



More later.........

The 1912 M1911 and other Heirlooms

"This sounds like a setup...don't go alone !" commented C4.
I wasn't worried, the email came from an friend since childhood. When I got off work yesterday, I drove the 40 miles necessary to visit my old friend.

After the usual Southern pleasantries, talk turned to the pistol at hand, and my friend removed it from an old bank money bag. I looked the M1911 over, and found it to be 100% original except for the magazine. The rounded rear sight and the ball cut slide are two features that I really like on the old M1911s. Sadly, my Black Army gun lacks both. The old war horse being offered had not seen much actual firing; the rifling was still sharp (if dirty) and the gun had the original barrel. Most of the finish wear was the result of time, not carry, and not abuse.

My friend was simply acting as a broker to facilitate a deal, and I soon learned that the owner was not uninformed. I had cash in my pocket, but I could not pay what he hoped to get for the pistol. I gave a couple of combination offers, trades of firearms and the ability to buy the M1911 back at the same price in the future, and I left it at that. Perhaps the owner, knowing that my word is my bond, will take me up on the offer in the realization that it gives us each the opportunity to own and regain a bit of history we could not otherwise afford.

Talk turned to catching up on each other's lives, and my friend's son Lee brought out his prized possession. Lee has an appreciation for fine firearms, and is a responsible shooter who never turns down an opportunity to blast away steel or paper. For a year before his twenty-first birthday, he would wistfully rhapsodize about the AR he wished he could build. Little did Lee realize that his father and a gunsmith friend were taking notes. On his twenty-first birthday, Lee was presented with a gift that is destined to become a family heirloom. A gift from a father that unequivocally recognizes his son as a responsible man.

These are the admirable qualities of the gun culture. It's a world where people are recognized by what they do, their actions makes them who they are. The honor among men (and women) is what makes the gun culture what it is. And it is that small fact, that honor, that is lost on those who would try to destroy the second amendment. Of course, what would they know of honor? If they trusted their fellow man, they wouldn't be worried about his guns.

Interesting email

"I know you to be a colt man Zav. This is a 1911 colt 45 issued to U.S. Military in 1912 Serial # 8345. He says good condition. I am not up on that sort of thing. If you are interested I can have at it at my place next week. I'm not a pistol guy , just wanted to give you a crack at it if you wanted to look at it. I've not seen it I 'm just relaying . Not mine but an old buddy I'm sure you'll know."

More later, I'm certain........

Pawn Shopping Secrets

Quite a few people have emailed me about my pawn shop circuit, wanting to know which shops I frequent, and how I do it. Pawn shopping is a lot like fishing. When you leave home, you never know what you might catch, but the catch is only half of the fun. If a person does not enjoy garage and estate sales, they will not enjoy pawn shopping. I'll list a few secrets.

First, like a good fishing spot, you must know where to go. Maw & Paw shops are seldom lucrative for firearms. Frequently Paw is a collector on the side, and the shop simply feeds his habit. Nicely priced pristine firearms will never make it to his shelf. He will have a nice selection of Lorcins and other crap guns though. Maw and Paw see a pawn shop as a means of making money both by loaning money and selling collateral. Thus their Lorcins will be priced above market value. Paw expects everyone to spend twenty minutes negotiating price. Even if he acts like he doesn't, Paw enjoys haggling. It makes him feel superior in his dusty fiefdom. I will occasionally stop in one of these shops, just to look, but I never expect much.

The best pawn shops for gunshopping will make money primarily off loans. The collateral is merely a means of loss prevention in these shops. These are frequently the larger franchise pawn shops. Look for one that has a motivated manager who is not a gun guy. These fellows will usually be late twenties to early thirties in age. In these shops anything used as collateral must be placed up for sale if the loan goes sour. The prices are set by the amount loaned on the item, which may have been determined by Blue Book value, or simply by how much the customer requesting a loan needed. Usually, in a franchise pawn shop, there is a 7-14 day waiting period before an employee can purchase an item just out of pawn. Thus, if you are checking their shelves a couple of times a week, you are likely to see goodies.

If you are an old gun connoisseur, finding a manager who uses an out of date Blue Book and who does not appreciate the subtle variations in models can yield big catches. This is how I managed to find a S&W Model of 1899 for $69, a SW1911 for the price of a Springfield Mil-Spec, and a S&W Pre-Model 10 for $89. I do not try to haggle on these deals, I just smile and buy. Of course, I also find guns like Neil's S&W 455 HE that are overpriced in my opinion. I simply let those lie. If the manager makes a bad decision on collateral's worth, then I want that pistol in the case looking at him when he starts to price the next one. I will simply look it over and try to educate my eye. If the manager or salesman seems to be receptive, I will let him know what I see. Being able to see the silk purse in a sow's ear is a skill worth developing, but so is recognizing a sow's ear priced like a silk purse. One thing I never do, however, is bring a gun back in after it has been cleaned up. Even if asked, I remain evasive about what I think an item is worth after refurbishing. That's my business. I do not ask what they paid. That's their business. I consider what a gun is worth at the time of purchase only, not what it might turn into once refurbished.

I do not expect to be able to negotiate on price much at franchise pawn shops. The store manager might be able to knock off taxes, but the corporate management follows them pretty closely, especially on guns. Once an item is entered into the computer system, the value is pretty much fixed. That occurs long before I see it on the shelf. If a store manager discounts prices again and again with the same customer, he appears to be doing sweetheart deals to the upper echelons of management. He will soon lose his job. I want that manager with the 1999 Blue Book and no interest in guns to keep his job. I'll gladly pay his prices. Having him pricing guns is worth more than $20 off some pistol.

Another key factor is checking the shops with regularity. I have tried to leave my pager number at several pawn shops, but I have never been paged. Leaving pager numbers works better for estate liquidators and gun shops. Pawn shops tend to follow a simple routine of removing the item from hock and placing it in the sale inventory and waiting. I make it a point to check my favored spots several times each week. Pawn shopping is truly like fishing in that regard. The man with the most time on the water will likely bring home the most fish, simply because he has found the best spot and he was there when they were biting. I am thankful to have a job that allows me to drive past my favorite shops each day. Some days, I just have a feeling, like ESP. I get to know the managers, and they know me too. I will walk in, take a quick look at the gun case, and say a quick hello. On days when the manager is engaged with another customer this can take less than a minute or two. If he sees me pause and call him over, he knows he has a likely sale. Otherwise, I leave him alone unless his shop is empty and he is lounging around.

Finally, know the value of guns in your area that grab your interest. Like any used gun shopper, a successful pawn shopper must learn to independently appraise a gun's worth to himself. This means more than simply finding it among Blue Book listings. Most guns are not unique, and prices can vary widely according to which region of the country the gun is in. Blue Books give a national average. I keep a journal of interesting guns I have found in my area, as well as their location, prices and condition. I include used guns I have purchased and also those I left behind at pawn shops, gun shows, and private sales. A well kept gun journal can become a very good supplement to the Blue Book, and it can even prevent you from making purchases you may later regret. Often simply writing a find down in the journal instead of buying prevents "gottahaveit" fever. My journal has seldom steered me wrong.

So there you have it, a successful pawn shopper is like a successful fisherman. He has gone fishing often enough to learn where to go. He goes to places where the fish are. He has learned through experience the places that will waste his time, but he keeps an eye on them anyway, just in case they should change. A successful fisherman does not go fishing for a 4 pound largemouth bass. He goes fishing for what he can catch that day. Sometimes it's bass, other times it's bream. He will also jug for catfish. He goes fishing frequently, and when he comes home empty handed, he tries again. Yep, pawn shopping is a lot like fishing, and almost as much fun.

Related page: Xavier's Gun Show Rules (they apply to pawn shopping too!)

This blast from the past is republished at the request of readers.

The Colt M1991A1

"Hey Xavier, would you be interested in a Colt?" We were getting ready for a case, and the x-ray technician's question was music to my ears.

"I dunno. What kind is it?" I asked.

"A M1991A1," replied Ralph, as he maneuvered the C-arm past my back table. "I took it to the gun store to trade in on a Smith & Wesson M&P, and they only offered me $300."

"That's too bad. Is it in decent shape?"

"Yeah. It's a bit beat up, but not bad," replied Ralph. "I have some custom grips on it."

"How's about $450?"

"Sounds good. Meet me after work?"

"OK, but the deal is dependent on whether it shoots reliably."

"OK."

So it was that I met up with Ralph after work to take a look at another Colt. When he took the blue case out of his truck, my mouth began to water. The Hogue wrap around "Good Year" grip stopped my Pavlovian response though. I hate those things.

The Colt M1991A1 is actually a 1911 manufactured by Colt to meet a certain price point. It was first introduced in..... 1991, and the gimmicky new name was emblazoned across the slide like a big bumper sticker. The finish was parkerizing, and the pistol contained the Series 80 firing pin safety. It was a basic gun, not glamorous, but reliable and effective. The factory installed a plastic trigger and a plastic mainspring housing to meet the price point desired. The model designation is still used, but today's version of the 1991 pistol is brushed blue with sandblasted rounds, and the pistol comes with nice wooden grips. It also sells for seven hundred dollars or so.

Ralph's pistol had some finish wear, and on field stripping it, it appeared as though he used 3 in 1 oil and WD-40 for lubricant. Other than the outer finish wear, it hardly looked to have been fired. "You shoot this much?" I asked.

"Nah, I just had it to have it," he replied.

I went through my process of checking a used 1911 prior to purchase. The thumb safety did not ping when the hammer was pulled back. The feed ramp had not been touched. The bore was like new. The barrel fit well, as did the slide. The magazine was a no name stainless steel mag, but it looked decent enough.

The 1911 wheels in my head got a quick kick start. In my spares box at home, I had a solid black aluminum trigger. I also had a checkered aluminum mainspring housing. I had walnut double diamond grips. This pistol would take very little to turn into a very nice, serviceable 1911. In fact, I would have to put no further money into it.

"I tell you what Ralph, I'll give you three hundred today, and the remaining one fifty after I shoot it," I offered.

"Fair enough," said Ralph. I placed the Colt in its blue box, snapped it shut, and drew three Benjamins out of my wallet.

Once home, I took out a few tools and began to detail strip the Colt. Everything was dry and in good shape, except both bushings unscrewed with the grip on the left side of the pistol. I used a pair of vise grips and a screwdriver to free the trapped bushings from the fat rubber grip, and then I set them back into the receiver with red LocTite.

I used brake cleaner to dissolve the gummed up oil inside the pistol. Digging through my spares box I found the trigger, mainspring housing and grips. It would take a lot to get me to change my mind now. I did a trigger job on the pistol and installed the parts. I removed a little metal from the tab of the grip safety to make it more responsive in my hands. I deepened the plunger recess in the thumb safety so it would engage and disengage with more authority. I dressed the extractor. Finally, I went to my range bag and retrieved a blue Shooting star magazine and stuffed it in the bottom. The pistol was starting to look like a clean, no nonsense pistol.

I was sold. Over time, my tastes in handguns has meta morphed from a love for large capacity European 9mm blasters, to plastic fantastics, to 1911 trend setters. Back in 1991, when this Colt pistol first hit the market, I was wrapped up in the 9mm wonder gun scene. I had passed them by at $400. Now, it is a fortunate man who finds one for that price, in almost any condition. I stuffed the Colt M1991A1 and some ammo in my range bag for a trip to the range.

I shot 230 hardball, 185 grain hollow points, and a couple magazines of reloads. I shot the pistol right side up, upside down, and on it's side. I let my thumb ride the slide and I limp wristed it. No matter how I tried to induce a failure, the Colt gobbled anything I had to stuff into it's magazine. It was accurate, more accurate than I was.

It looks like I'll be taking $150 to work in the morning.

Trade Fodder

Over time, every gun accumulator accumulates a few firearms they eventually let go of. A couple of my guns slated to be swapped off at the next gun show are pictured here. The Browning 22 Auto is one that will travel about the floor in search of a trade. I bought the Browning 22 at fire sale prices. I had always wanted one. It's is one of John Moses marvels. It is accurate and decently reliable. It also has a funky loading method that makes shooting it at a public range a pain.

I found that I prefer the ease and flexibility of the Ruger 10/22 after all. I had a yearning for the 22 Auto until I had one. Now, it's like a $1500 coon dog that just eats and sleeps. If I can find someone to swap a used Smith & Wesson revolver for it, I will pass it on to it's next owner. I'd take a decent Ruger Standard as well.

I purchased the SW1911 with the expectation I would likely trade it off. The SW1911 is a good pistol. I'm a Colt guy though. I got the SW1911 for a decent price, and if I can use it as trade fodder towards another Colt 1911, I will. If I can't trade it off, I may just shoot the hell out of it.

The Reason I Crossed the Bridge

One of the reasons I passed up Preacherman's turn-off yesterday was because I thought an old favorite gun dealer would be first on the route. I was headed his way. I had learned that there would be no gun show my hometown this year, the Police department had canceled their show, and the independent promoter of the alternative had health problems. I had money saved, and remembered a certain pistol that I had seen last year.

Hutchinson's Guns is in Tioga Louisiana, a Ma and Pa operation with little overhead and good prices. I was in the market for a pistol. Hutch was walking across his front yard as I parked in his drive, and we went into his crowded one man operation. Gun cases were stacked shoulder high, ready to be loaded into a trailer for the next show. I asked if he still had a Colt Defender.

Hutch went to a stack of blue plastic cases and deftly pulled one from the center. The pistol inside had the low profile sights, but it also had the ugly duck bill grip safety. Hutch agreed to give me the price I had seen at last year's gun show, and so, I bought the pistol.

I commonly advise people to shoot a 1911 for at least three months before they change anything. Alas, I suffer from the "fix 'em up" bug as well. Already I have a list of changes for this gun.

The Hogue wrap around Good Year grip has got to go. Slim wood panels only. Maybe checkered double diamond cocobolo.

A Nowlin "speed demon" hammer with a short, classic Commander grip safety should help concealability, comfort, and still prevent hammer bite.

The black trigger has got to go as well. Silver. Solid.

I'll likely keep the teardrop thumb safety and the polymer mainspring housing. No need adding weight to a pistol designed to be light weight. Finally, a dehorning. I may take this pistol to Clarks to get the slide melted.

So, I guess I am susceptible to the 1911 "fix 'em up" bug as well. Time to break out the parts bin......... Or get to the range with some .45ACP.

Model 21 at CDNN

CDDN has the recent Model 21 listed. Rumor has it the price is $499. Couple of issues: it has the integral lock, and there is no upper sideplate screw. The round butt grip looks kind of funky too. The hammer is lacking the firing pin, and is comprised of MIM along with the trigger.

But if you have a hankering for a 44 special wheelgun and those issues don't bother you, here's a chance to buy a new one for a very good price.

To Buy or Not to Buy

From an email:

Xavier,

I ready your blog daily and thank you for your insight on evaluating firearms. I have learned volumes from your writing and hope to enjoy reading your posts for years to come. I live in Salt Lake City, Utah, and recently found this revolver for sale on a local classifieds site.
I haven't contacted him because I wanted to get your take on the revolver. Does this look/sound legit? Thank you for your assistance.

$450.00
"Victory" model Smith & Wesson .38 SPCL revolver
Sandy, UT 84070 - Aug 11, 2008
I have for sale a "Victory" model Smith & Wesson revolver. This was a lend-lease gun, and has the "British Nitro-proof" markings on the Cylinder and above the Smith & Wesson name on the left side of the barrel. The British converted this revolver to .38 SPCL, although the barrel is still marked .38 S&W CTG. All serial #'s match, and the "V" is stamped before the serial # on the bottom of the butt strap, and the face of the cylinder. The barrel has been professionally shortened to 3.5", and the lanyard ring was removed, probably for concealment purposes.
Buyer must be willing to sign a bill of sale. No phone calls after 8pm, please.

It's legit, but be aware that a British lend lease Victory was originally chambered in .38S&W. To rechamber it in .38 special, the length of the chambering is increased. What many do not understand is the .38S&W is a bit larger in diameter than a .38 special. Of course, this difference can not be taken away. The result is frequently ruptured shell casings and problems with extraction.

The shortening of the barrel is usually OK for a shooter if it's done well and a good crown is placed on it. The grips on this revolver, of course, are not original. The Smith & Wesson British Victory for sale is no longer historical, and it is likely a poor shooter. It's market value is between $125 and $175, depending on the area it is sold in. A good used Model 10 would sell for around $200-250. A M&P would sell for about the same. An unaltered Victory in .38 special (US) would sell for $300-450 depending on type and condition. An unaltered British Victory would go for about the same amount now.

There is no way I would pay $450 for the revolver you are considering. You can get a much better original gun for that money.

My two pesos.

Xavier

Dinner Party Colt

Sometimes you never know when an old pistol will pop up. I was shown and offered this Colt 1903 Hammerless this evening at a dinner party. It was a nice pistol, with quite a bit of remaining finish. Everything functioned correctly, and it appeared to be all original.

The owner was not really motivated to sell, simply saying he had an "old Colt" he might get rid of. I disassembled the little shooter and checked the bore. It was good. I ventured $400. He declined. I decided to let it continue to reside with him. Often, that is the best policy if you are not certain about the value of a gun for sale.

More information on the 1903 Hammerless can be found at Colt Autos.com.

Payback.....A Colt WW1 1911

When I was a boy of two, my father died. He was a sportsman and owned a variety of firearms and fishing equipment. Regrettably, my mother was forced to sell much of his belongings to keep our family afloat. Of course, she did not know the fair market value. She trusted the buyers, my father's former friends, to be fair with her. Some were men of honor, others had no scruples about taking advantage of a widow and two toddlers. Such is often the case when a gun owner passes to the 500 yard range in the sky where bulleyes are granted by divine intervention.

Ever since Colt decided to reproduce a WW1 1911 replica, I have lusted after one. I have kept an ear to the ground to no avail trying to find a used one, and the price of the pistol new was hard to justify. Two weeks ago, when I expressed my condolences to a co-worker over the loss of her husband, we got to talking about him. It seemed he was a sporadic gun accumulator, and the lady eventually asked me to have a look at his things. A few days later, I drove over with the expectation of finding a Glock or two, and perhaps a Steven's shotgun.

As I held Vicki's young uncomprehending son in my lap, I knew that someday, he would be where I once was. He would wonder if his father's friend who shook his young hand at church and ruffled his hair on the basketball court really was a friend. There are so many things lost to a boy raised without a father, not the least of which is the guidance needed to determine a true friend.

After a bit of coffee, Vicki and I finally got around to the reason I was there. She told me she had taken David's guns to a dealer in town and sold most of them. She said the pawn broker accepted what the dealer would not. I immediately regretted that I had not asked her to wait for me to evaluate the firearms, but I held my tongue. I knew what had happened. Vicki went on to tell me she had saved me one because she had overheard me talking about my Colt between cases at work. She then removed a white box from atop the refrigerator and handed it to me. On the outside was an orange sticker warning that the pistol inside lacked a firing pin safety. Vicki did not know what that meant, but it did not sound good to her. I could hardly conceal my anticipation as I removed the blue box within, and then the stamped pasteboard box within that.

Inside was the Colt pistol I had long desired. It was pristine, unfired. It appeared to be untouched, except to place it on top of the brown wax paper. I was likely the first to open the slide and check the chamber. It was empty. I looked the Colt over knowingly, having spent a couple of years researching the cosmetic flaws that sometimes appeared on them. The recoil tunnel was spot on. The rollmarks were precisely done. The finish was immaculate and beautiful.

Then Chase waddled up and said "Cawful cawful bang bang!" I laughed. I let him back in my lap and told Vicki to hold the pistol until I returned from the bank. About an hour later, I returned and purchased the pistol. I doubt I will ever say what I paid for this Colt. That is up to Vicki to relate as she wishes. I will say that I repaid a debt left by unscrupulous men to a fractured family almost half a century ago. Mama, you would be proud.

Colt's World War I U.S. Army Replica

The 1911 Gap

Because of the ready supply of aftermarket parts, many people teach themselves a bit of gunsmithing on the kitchen table after the purchase of their first 1911. This is not a bad thing really, it only becomes a problem when they do not understand concepts such as............If you are about to grind on the feedramp of a 1911 with a Dremel to make it feed better, you are about to turn a 1911 frame into a trotline weight. Unfortunately Danny Dremel will often try to pass off his mistake to an unsuspecting buyer lured by price.

When considering a used 1911 with a non-ramped barrel, expect there to be a small (about 2mm) gap between the frame's feedramp and the barrel's feedramp when the slide is locked back. This is normal. It's supposed to be there. If it is not there, the pistol will never feed correctly, and the only solution is to weld-up and recut the frame, cut out the frame and install a ramped barrel, or replace the frame. None of these options are fiscally attractive.

Always check for this gap. If it is not present, pass on the gun. You will save yourself a lot of anguish.

Here is what you want to avoid.

Smith & Wesson Classics

In their new catalog, I see that CDNN is already beginning to liqidate the Smith & Wesson Classics.

If you call, they will give you a price. The only one I have held was a nickel Model 22, M1917 at the last gun show. It was rather nice. The seller, Larry, only wanted $750, but I could not get past the lock and the fact that I could get a real classic Model of 1917 in pretty darned good shape for that. I wonder what CDNN is selling them for.....

I might call.........

Nah, they have a lock and I'm a curmudgeon.

The Escalating Springfield

I was at an Academy Sports today, and I noticed a 1911 in the pistol case. I went forward to take a look. It was a Springfield GI45........for $639. Yep, a plain old parkerized five inch GI45 with the US grips and an olive drab GI45 hangtag for almost six and a half!

I started to ask to see it, wondering if the sales kid would call it a "Mil-Spec" but I resisted. I suspected he might also tell me how this pistol was carried by the Marines at Iwo Jima and in Baghdad today. I just took note of the price and thought I would ask.........Are they this high all over now? Is Academy Sports trying to gouge naive customers? I don't know, but I'm certainly glad that I bought mine from a reputable dealer in 2003 for a mere $400!

Reflections

Xavier, I've been wondering when one of your forays would meet reality in the form of collectors posing as sellers at the gun shows, and at most independent gun shops and pawnshops these days, I'm afraid. In my pawnshop in the 90's, with legislation of unknown scope on the horizon, most FFL's added a what-if factor to their gun prices and that actually increased demand and margins; it was the most profitable period of firearms sales in my thirty years as a dealer...a serendipitous effect of wasteful, pointless, dangerous government...

That scenario may be playing out now in a precursory way. There is a very high likelihood that one of those three Democrats will be president, and almost certainly control through law or through tort will soon follow. Many dealers and quasi-dealers at shows may feel their investment is better kept in good guns than in cash. That's how I felt in '92, anyway, and it was a profitable strategy for me.

I would counsel you to alter your aversion to new, at least in the short term, and especially for Colt. The many truisms about the supply of Colts like the one you overheard are based in the real paucity of desirable pieces available for your favorite FFL to order for you. If your guy will order for you at $40-$50 over his true cost with prepay as I did for my good buyers, put your money down today and with overnight shipment and your carry permit, walk out of the store with your new acquisition tomorrow. You are very unlikely to experience depreciation; more likely you made money when you bought it.

So dealers are hanging onto their good pre-owned stuff that they own outright, witness your show experience and the lately inflated Gun Broker listings...But most are glad to make the $40-$50 on the new piece with no risk or investment to them; you may even get new for used price, of course the coolest stuff you just can't get new.

One exception to the overpriced pre-owned market is still in the police handgun trade-ins. I mentioned in a response to one of your old posts that Glock's inspired marketing plan put Glocks in most cop's holsters and put a lot of nice (and a lot of not so nice) hi-cap s/a's, primarily 9's, onto the used market at attractive prices, like those Beretta's you saw...
Regards,
jtc

First, jtc, I hope you don't mind me cleaning up your punctuation a bit and using your comment to kick off this post. Marketplace economics driven by trepidation, speculation, and outright greed good business practices in the face of political change is a reality in the gun market.

Some readers have commented on the dwindling number of my Pawn Shop Circuit posts. The decline is for a couple of reasons......First, I have noticed that there are other folks, in particular a FFL dealer who sells on Gun Broker cruising the same shops as me. It began to appear as though this fellow and his cohorts were reading my blog. Hello Guy! Fortunately, I have a good rapport with the shops I buy at, and I don't try to chew them down on prices. When Mr. Gun Broker Dealer tries to gnaw another fifty bucks off a fair price, Neil and Kenny both know old Xavier will eventually walk in again. Many times they will wait to see what I will offer.

Then, too, it seems as though there are fewer good guns on the used market these days. For a while, after hurricane Katrina, North Louisiana seemed to be a Mecca of used items of all types as evacuees sold off belongings and struggled back to their feet. That trend seemed to stop last year. I figure not many of my readers want to hear that Kenny and Neil still have the same old Sigma and Taurus revolver in their case. So, I stopped writing about every foray into the used gun market.

When it comes to gun shows, I do indeed see fewer and fewer collector quality firearms available. Perhaps I need to go to some of the bigger shows and have a look. It seems as though the smaller ones I attend are merely a means for dealers to harvest guns from walk-ins, which they later place on the table (if at all) at a larger show. I sometimes wonder if ammunition might be a better investment.

But back to the subject at hand.......That Colt New Agent. Knowing that I will carry it, that it is a blued pistol, and that it will receive significant wear, should I buy? I have other pistols that this one would supplement. My Colt Compact is roughly the same size, although the New Agent would be lighter. All reports on the New Agent have been positive. It's the first Colt venture past the Defender into the CCW market.

That is something to think about, I suppose. One front running Democratic candidate has already voiced a desire to crush concealed carry. It may not be possible to repeal CCW legislation if Obama is elected, but prices of dedicated CCW guns will no doubt escalate along with high capacity handguns and rifles.

Lets suppose I buy the Colt New Agent at $800. I give the pistol $150 worth of wear. $100 depreciation as used. The gun is now worth $650. Could political winds raise the used price of the pistol almost 40 percent to where I would break even? I don't know. One thing is certain though......Future politics will likely keep this pistol off the used market for some time, and the price being asked is fair. I think I need to go with my gut.

TOZ-35 Hole Punch

I finally took possession of my TOZ-35 yesterday. I had ordered it from CDNN on Tuesday the 20th, but shipping was slowed by the holidays. My FFL is kind of slow as well, as guns are not their primary business. I was on call at the hospital forever it seemed, so busy I just came home and crashed. I'm still recovering, but I now have the TOZ......

I will be doing a range report soon, but for anyone that wants to order one, they are $499 plus $13 shipping, with the wooden case. My case came with an odd double tin of lubricant, and little else but a Xeroxed English version of the manual. I have not shot the pistol yet......gotta wait for Saturday, but if you are interested in ordering one, they seem to be a solid deal. These are Olympic quality Free Pistols manufactured by the Russkies. It's a solid, well built pistol, and it appears to be unfired. I look forward to being the first to fire it.

Ho Ho Ho!

Looking through CDNN's most recent catalog, I find a TOZ-35M for me, and a CM-2 Target Rifle for Little Darling. They also have Colt AR-15's for fairly decent prices. Hmmmmmmmm It's beginning to look at lot like Christmas.......

Bargain AR15s

Just in time for Christmas..........

"We typically only sell these rifles at gunshows, but have collected way too many of them. Most all parts are brand new on the inside, this includes barrels, bolt/carriers, internals, buffer & spring but have external flaws due to being stored in "bulk" and are listed as being used. Lowers are a mix of manufactures and include CMMG, DPMS,and Doublestar.
None of these rifles will win any beauty contests, but will make a excellent truck or trunk guns. All rifles have been test fired and all are as-is. The $20 hand select fee will ensure a better finish."

$550 + $15 Shipping, optional hand select = $20.

"Rifle configurations are currently 16" 1/9 M4s, 16" HBARs and 20" HBARs and are not chrome lined. The 16" carbines come with 4 position stocks and the 20" rifles comes with an new A1 stock. Hand select only pertains to external condition, not make."

Now available at CMMG. They have mags for your new "baby" too.

I have not ordered from CMMG, but Uncle seems to be OK with them.

Hat tip to Common Folk.